Picking Keys

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Toni on October 23, 2010 at 4:22pm

Because of the 'lack of reply' facility as noted by Dee I'm posting here.

Daniel - you did not in any way spoil my morning, and I consider you've probably performed a service to worshiping Christendom. I've talked with a lot of musicians at all levels, and some of the comments I read on WTR were quite quite astonishing in their self-centredness and lack of concern for others. I guess they just felt threatened and exposed.

Permalink Reply by Daniel Read on October 23, 2010 at 5:05pm

Thanks Toni

The one other thing I should report is that I made use of the "messaging" facility on Worship Central to contact Tim Hughes directly. It's nice to be able to report that (i) he replied, and (ii) his reply was a lot more open than many of the responses on the thread - he certainly didn't seem to mind me raising the points I did. I don't know whether it will make any difference, but let's see.

(I guess you meant WC, not WTR....)

Permalink Reply by martyn burt on October 19, 2010 at 1:03pm

We tend to transpose a lot of songs - possibly only a tone or so, but usually anything by Chris Tomlin, Tim Hughes and Matt Redman get the 'take it down' treatment. The test is usually if my wife hears me singing and she says it sounds harsh, to take it down.

On Sunday evening I was leading a big united service with lots of keen worshippers and a full band, so we could have done written keys, but of the 11 songs we did in total we changed:

From everlasting to everlasting (to A)
From the highest of heights (to C#m/E)
Who is like you (to E)
Blessed be Your name (to A)
Be thou my vision (to D)
Everyone needs compassion (to G)
The splendour of the King (to A)

So most changed. I am of the 'don't change the key unless you need to' brigade, but sometimes it has to be, not only for flow, but also to make them singable.

Permalink Reply by James Goodman on October 19, 2010 at 4:22pm

Martin - I use exactly those keys, except From the highest of heights which we do in Bm/D

Do you or others on here use 'Here I am (Majesty)' by Delirious?

It's a great song but I have struggled to find a key that is comfortable in the top and bottom with that song for congregational singing. I ended up starting it on F#m - chorus in A so the top note is a C# below top E - nice and comfortable, but the verse is still grumbly for a mid range bloke. (I cheat at this point and have the female vocals take the melody and just harmonise!).

You made a good point about flow too.

Permalink Reply by Rick Van Wechel on October 21, 2010 at 1:01am

I love the song and you're right, it's hard to find a good key. It's either too low, or too high. I find that I don't use it as often as it deserves for that reason. I can usually find a key that fits my voice, but most of the congregation is unable to reach the higher notes so that makes it hard for them to enjoy the song to its fullest.

Permalink Reply by Dorothy Murphy on October 22, 2010 at 5:13am

Martyn said, 'We tend to transpose a lot of songs - possibly only a tone or so, but usually anything by Chris Tomlin, Tim Hughes and Matt Redman get the 'take it down' treatment. The test is usually if my wife hears me singing and she says it sounds harsh, to take it down.'

Agreeing, That sounds like a good test, Martyn. We usually go by whether my daughter or I tend to slide up to the top note. (A horrible thing to listen to, but what happens when we're not concentrating or warmed up properly.) If we do, then we know that most people will not get there at all on Sunday morning.

PS I like your song list from the other night!

Permalink Reply by Rick Van Wechel on October 21, 2010 at 12:57am

Good points! This is actually one of my pet peeves when visiting other churches; the first song is often much too high and I strain my voice so that I cannot enjoy the rest of the music. The worship team has the advantage of being warmed up, of course, it's not too high for them. When leading worship I always either transpose the first songs to a lower key, or choose songs in a medium range before I bring in those that soar to the top of the scale. A lot of the new contemporary songs jump up an octave when they get to the chorus. It's a great effect, but I will sometimes lead the congregation by singing an octave under the written melody. Those that have the ability can sing the higher notes while the rest sing in a more comfortable range.

Permalink Reply by Bizzy Bender on October 22, 2010 at 5:48pm

I have been leading worship for 20 +yrs now and when I 1st started I sang with a team who was led by a male tenor and a high one at that. It was impossible for me to sing the melody unless I sang an octive below but that wasn't blessing anyone! So I learned to sing harmony. When I began leading on my own, I knew that I would have to transpose into keys that I could sing melody in and I discovered something. A lot of people came up to me and thanked me because they could sing with me!
It is important to key the song in a range that will be singable for the congregation and at the same time comfortable for the lead singer.
My computer is full of songs in multiple keys because another thing that I can't stand is an out of tune guitar and when you start pulling capos on and off the result is an out of tune guitar. So I plan my sets around my capo positioning and if I really want to do a song that suddenly requires no capo and I've had it on for 3-4 songs I save it for the offertory so I can re tune.

Permalink Reply by Daniel Read on October 22, 2010 at 6:11pm

:-o There are Americans in the group!!!

:-)

Permalink Reply by James Goodman on October 22, 2010 at 6:25pm

Two nations united by a common problem?!

PS Thanks Bizzy - the capo is a bit of a mixed blessing isnt it :-)

Permalink Reply by Daniel Read on October 22, 2010 at 6:45pm

It certainly seems to be a common problem, yes.

Permalink Reply by Julian W on January 11, 2011 at 10:41pm

Earlier Daniel Read wrote:

I usually reckon a safe range is Bb below middle C (or the A, at a push) to the D above top C (or the Eb at a push, occasionally the E). But, if the melody spends a long time near either extreme it can still feel too high or too low (for example, a long run of notes all above the B will still start to strain some voices).

I think that's an excellent, concise, summary.  We could all take note of it and choose our keys accordingly.

 

The thing is, most church musicians I've played with wouldn't know how to work that out, or even know what notes they're singing.  It's possible to become a good singer/guitar player (or even a very good one) without learning to read the notes - you don't need to.  Learning to read music well is a big task, but I suggest this is one area where some theoretical knowledge, and maybe some formal musical training, can really pay dividends.

 

It does seem strange to me that song-writers should put their songs intended for congregational worship in keys that are too high for congregations to be able to sing them.  But maybe many songwriters have not come from a background of formal musical education but have learned their trade and all their musical abilities in church. I'm not suggesting there's anything wrong with that, I just think it can help a lot if at least some of the musicians know more about music and understand the limits of congregational voice range - see above.

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