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Worship without Music
Is Worship more effective with music? I've seen a congregation move to the music, but not to the worship. Can a person get more out of worship without music? As we say a "Heart of Worship" It doesn't matter with or without music it's what comes from the heart out that counts,
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Stevo on -
If it's in the context of cheering Him up, I don't see it as biblical. But if it's in the context of being pleased that we hurt for what He hurts, then it's biblical.
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Permalink Reply by Rick Cogbill on
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Not cheering Him up, Stevo, but pleasing Him with our response/obediance (kind of like being pleased that we hurt for what He hurts...).
Sometimes I think we begin to presume how much we reallly know about God. The Bible is His revelation about Himself...but it doesn't tell us everything.
Does He get sad or happy? Does He smile or frown? I don't really know...and to be honest, I don't it bothers Him if I think that He does, or that others think He doesn't.
In the end, we're all just learning how to reconnect that link with our Creator that was broken long ago in the Garden of Eden, the time when God walked and talked with man like a close friend.
That day is soon coming, and I'm looking forward to it :)
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Permalink Reply by Cory Zipperle on -
"but he wants it for us because of what it does for us"
I don't know about this. Holy Scripture is clear that all things were created for Him (Collisions 1:16). Not for him for us, not for us for him. If you study acts of worship in Holy Scripture, you'll see that the worshiper doesn't always get something positive in return from worshiping God.
So while it is correct to say that God wants it, it is incorrect to say that he wants it because it is good for us (even though it is good for us to worship God).
God wants us to worship him. He commands his creation to do so. He does this because He is jealous and doesn't want us worshiping other things.
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Permalink Reply by Cory Zipperle on
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Worshiping God for our own benefit is idolatry at best.
Jesus says "Worship the Lord your God and serve him only." So while God may not need our worship, we are commanded to worship Him anyway. When God's people worship, they don't always get something in return.
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Permalink Reply by Stevo on
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Is it idolatry to eat your green beans because they're good for you?
God knows that worshiping Him and Him alone is best for us. If our motivation to worship Him is that it's best for us, then that's a pretty good motivation and He'll honor that. And when we worship God, we always benefit.
In order for this to be idolatry, one has to be worshiping something beside God. Knowing what you've said before about idolatry in another place (was it the distraction thread?), I think you have some confusion about what idolatry is. Doing things for your own spiritual benefit isn't idolatry. The New Testament is full of exhortations to live a Godly life so you can have an inheritance in the kingdom and not just merely entrance into the kingdom. Altruism isn't a Christian virtue.
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Doing what's truly best for me is common sense (and I don't mean at the expense of others) and I believe that God expects his creation to use the brains he gave them. Worshipping God is one of those "good for me" things. Following the Ten Commandments is also good for us. Is that the only reason to do it? No, but it's not an act of idolatry.
God remembers our frame, that we are but dust. Let's face it; we live in the dirt, not in heavenly palaces - yet. Not all of our actions (even worship actions) are purely motivated, but to the extent that they are directed towards God and to knowing Him, there is a redeeming factor to them all.
God the Father made a huge effort in sending Jesus so that we could better understand the Father-heart of God. Holiness and Majesty is huge when it comes to God, but so is Love and Grace.
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Permalink Reply by Stevo on
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My only point is that God even put the motivation of future reward in front of us. It's a huge part of Jesus' teaching in Matthew. Remember the parable of the talents? It's about future reward and how to earn it. You can't remove the reward from the equation.
When I say "doing what's good for you", I'm implying that being a servant and putting others before you as Jesus did has huge reward in the future. It's paradoxical - deny yourself today and reap great benefits in the future. In the end, when we are judged for our actions, we will be judged by what we did for others and for the kingdom. But we will be judged alone as individuals, so it is about what's in it for us. And what will we be like? We'll be servants, once again, but with greater responsibility and honor before our Master.
You cannot separate future rewards from present actions, it messes up the whole equation.
And back to how this relates to worship without music? If our motivation is because worship toward God is for God, then it's not biblical and our view of God is off. God is trying to teach us how to worship Him properly because He knows that's best for us and will make us happiest. The sooner we get that, the better.
And yes, God likes music. Otherwise, there wouldn't be song in heaven. I just hope the guitars up there last longer than the ones down here...
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"If our motivation is because worship toward God is for God, then it's not biblical and our view of God is off."
I'm reminded of a line from an Eagle's song, The Heart of the Matter. It goes like this: "The more I know, the less I understand." I'm not saying that you shouldn't back your theology with scripture...just that God is even bigger than the Bible. I simply mean that not everything about Him is in there.
That might sound scary to some, but it just proves to me that God is so much greater than I can even imagine (and that, by the way, is scriptural).
By the way, I thought my previous comment was agreeing with you, Stevo. Sorry if it didn't come out that way.
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Permalink Reply by Stevo on
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It did, I was just spring boarding to make a further point. But your new point confuses me.
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I'm just saying that I don't quite agree that our worship cannot be for God.
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Permalink Reply by Stevo on
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It's a slippery word, "for". I just mean that it's not for Him in the sense that He doesn't need it. It ultimately is for us in the sense that it changes nothing for Him when we do it, but it infinitely changes us. It's also not "for" Him in the sense that it makes Him feel better like He somehow needs cheering up from all the ugly things He sees in the world. But it is for Him in the sense that it's an offering to Him. Kind of like, "here you go, this is for you".
Does it make sense? It's worth discussing I think. -
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Permalink Reply by JORN on -
There are some missing puzzle peices that I think are there for a reason. For one thing it ushers in the whole idea of faith. The lack of answers requires us to have faith to get from point A to point B. It also stirs a passion of sorts. We wouldn't be sitting around contemplating worship the way we are if it were all spelled out for us. God knew exactly what He was doing. I'm with you on the idea that we are just scraping the surface.
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