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what to do when your faith disappears.
The setup
I've always said that my faith is unaccounted for. I've never truly questioned whether God exists as I've always just "had" faith it was true. I gave my life to christ when I was 4, had a hiccup at 13 and recommitted at 18. I'm now 27.I felt like I heard from God quite a few times, have led services and led worship for 7 years at a lively church in Coventry UK. I've been a committed and active christian for what seems like an awfully long time now. I studied worship at Nexus academy of Music Ministry and have a pretty good knowledge of the bible, theology etc.
about me
I describe myself as an all or nothing guy. I give myself 100% to what I believe. In fact, I find it hard to be anything other than 100%. I get frustrated and down when things slow up. I recognize this as both an asset and a little destructive.
I'm creative, and have a moderate intelligence level. Meaning I question everything, make assumptions and tend to think I'm right.
I can admit when I'm wrong. I'm one of those annoying people who will argue full force abot something, then as soon as I'm proved wrong, I will admit it and recant. People who take things really personally find this annoying.
I'm fairly emotionally detached. I have trouble regulating my emotions (because I can be hyper emotional) this means I look at most things coldly logically because I know I am prone to emotionalism.
But lately...
After the birth of my first son, I took a step back from the worship team. It felt quite weird, but I saw it as a time to chill out, get things in order before I stepped back in.
As soon as I stopped leading, I felt a little lost. I figured it was just an opportunity to spend more time with God.
I felt like God took me on a real journey to overcome some habitual sin in my life. I built it up to be something very special. God really did seem to set me free from something. Or .. at least, Using principles I'd learnt from scripture and with the support of other christians I managed to regulate my habitual behavior.
Then I started to notice how human the worship at our church was becoming. It just felt like everyone was speaking very spiritually about things which really had most of their explanation in human emotional/psychological and physical means. Prophecies in the church (not just the one I attend) were falling short of the mark and didn't seem to get really tested. There was no outrage. It was accepted.
I started to really evaluate what was going on within myself when I worshipped. I got really lost trying to find what was real and what wasn't. And what really shocked me, was that nobody else seemed to care. Everyone seems happy to attribute positive experience to God and talk down or excuse the failures, let downs and unanswered prayers.
I delved deeper into what was real and what wasn't. I actually got asked to lead a sunday morning service at the last minute. I prayed for Gods guidance and when I didn't "hear anything" I decided I would simply put no effort in, in fact I spiritually sabotaged the preceedings, threw in random songs and did absolutely no prayer. Surely, a spiritually discerning church would immediately pick me up on this.. The result was quite the opposite, many people came to me and said it had been the most powerful service they had experienced for weeks.
Commence more confusion.
Now I was still managing victory over my habitual sin, and decided I desperately needed for God to reveal himself to me, to prove that this wasnt just psychological, That God really cared whether I sinned or not. Surely God would answer a simple request for help, for him to send someone, something.. anything to prevent me from simply slipping back into sin. The result, was a spectacular fall back in to sin. In fact, areas of my life which I left behind a long time ago (such as smoking) came back in to my life.
so then I stepped outside the paradigm
So following all of this, I decided to step outside the paradigm of faith. What happens when you coldly and logically look at the reality before you? It seems that when you are in the paradigm of faith, everything can be explained. Everything is part of Gods plan, good or bad. But as soon as you step outside the paradigm, and ask the difficult questions, it all seems to fall down like a pack of cards.
What I know
I'm very close to not really believing anything. I feel let down by church in general, by wishy washy christians, I feel self deceptive, like my own experience can't really be a guide, as I'm so easily led, confused etc. I feel let down by God, who I assumed would race in and rescue me and I feel. I feel VERY skeptical, spirituality seems to me to be a lot of hype.
And yet
believe me when I say this, I am desperate for God to reveal himself. For all this to be real and for me to have some sort of foundation again. I'm just a little lost
If you're replying
I really appreciate anyone who has any thoughts, but if you're not ready for me to question what you say then it's probably best not to bother.
cheers.
Paul
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JORN on -
I’m not sure why but I was compelled to go back and reread your post. My previous post rambled a bit and I was responding more collectively (with random thoughts) to the overall posts then to your original post. Your original post deserves some attention.
A couple things stand out. It appears that there was some magic (so to speak) in your walk that dissipated as time went by. Can this be like the infatuation stage of a relationship where it is all wonderful? Eventually, as time goes by, you realize that there are some flaws? When reading through that is the sense I get. That you began to see things differently as the infatuation wore off.
The other thing that strikes me is the idea that you think you have something to do with the overall outcome. As evidenced by this comment “and when I didn’t ‘hear anything’ I decided I would simply put no effort in, in fact I spiritually sabotaged the proceedings, threw in random songs and did absolutely no prayer. Surely, a spiritually discerning church would immediately pick me up on this.. The result was quite the opposite, many people came to me and said it had been the most powerful service they had experienced for weeks.” If God is in control, you may have been exactly in His will and those “random songs” that you threw in had to come from somewhere. Just because you don’t think you “feel” the Holy Spirit doesn’t mean He isn’t at work. We base so much on what we feel but our feelings are labile and flawed at best.
This brings me to the idea of “stepping out of the paradigm”. You are asking to coldly and logically look at something that is totally illogical. Of course it is going to fall apart because you have no point of reference. You are shooting at it in the dark.
Regarding your habitual sin, I’m sorry that you are struggling. It is tough to be bound by an addiction. This is something I know from experience. What you may not realize is that you are not alone. I bet there are numerous people right here on this site who struggle with addictions and “habits” and a myriad of other issues. Paul said himself that the things he wants to do he doesn’t and the things he doesn’t want to do he does. The problems aren’t new nor are they exclusive. I have to wonder if you are setting a higher standard for yourself and not giving yourself a break.
Anyway Paul, I pray you find the peace you are looking for. I applaude your efforts to explore your relationship with God. I also want to encourage you to ask for support on your journey. God bless!
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Permalink Reply by Paul Kent on -
Hello to all that have posted over the last month. Anyone interested in an update?
I'll take your silence as a yes :-D
The Open Door.
There's an open door. But you can only see it once you step through it and look back. How do you walk through it?
The Sin Cycle
So I've been stuck in this cycle of sin for almost 6 months now.
The reason I couldn't break through is because my sin is one that effects my family and my marriage. Given that I felt let down by God in him not stepping in and helping me in sin (If you remember my testing of God with the worship service, around the same time I also tested him with Sin. I figured if I upped the gambit, surely that would force Gods hand?? I basically set a course straight for Sin as a test and decided that If God were real he would intervene), and because I no longer had any belief in my own self discipline and ability to be righteous, I lost all sense of salvation, all sense of Gods power. I simply considered Christianity flawed, powerless, useless. My point then, is that I didn't want to repent (because it meant bringing my sin in to the light with my family) unless I knew God was real. Otherwise I'd cause unnecessary pain to myself, and to my family.
I needed to find a way to prove God, but every time I thought about God, I knew that my unrepentant (not that I wasn't sorry, but that I wasn't able to address it, which is true repentance) heart just made me bitter.
I was like those monkeys, who reach inside the tree stump to reach a banana, but as soon as their fist is clenched, it is too large to fit back out the hole. I had to release my banana before I could move on. :)
Eventually, I got to the point where I was so exacerbated by people telling me God was real, and I could pick holes in everything they were saying, that I was just plain angry. The breakthrough came through a simple prayer, followed by my church basically ganging up on me..
Finally I decided that I needed to bring my sin into the light. I and my family are now dealing with the fallout.
So breakthrough came. Small, but important.
I'm a long way off yet, but there is a seed of faith again. I'm at least the other side of the door. And a small revelation was dropped on me today as I was pondering it.
The small revelation for the door
You know the doors there because people of integrity tell you it is and their lives reflect it.
I think I was annoyed that I saw a lot of lack of integrity and lives that didn't reflect the glory of God. It confused me an awful lot! If and when God gets me back to the solid foundation I'm hoping for, I know that things must be a lot different in my life. What happens when my testimony is the factor that decides whether someone walks through the door or not. Would people believe you?
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This post is a little more rambling than my normal rambles. Hope you can make some sense of it :)
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Permalink Reply by Toni on -
I'd say this is the most sensible thing you've posted in the whole thread. Well done for pushing through that door, Paul, despite the fallout and obvious struggles it's created.
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Permalink Reply by JORN on
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Paul, thank you so much for your update! Your post shows great courage.
God allows us to see only in His time and not a minute sooner. So, then came the simple prayer that led to the seed of faith. I think God allows us to agonize a while so that we have a better sense of where we are in relationship to where we’ve been because where we’ve been shapes who we are. Hang onto those seemingly small steps that you have made. They are really giant leaps!
As for your revelation, you are on your own individual journey. Measuring the integrity of others is unproductive and unreliable. When you boil it all down it’s just you and God. Focus on the vertical. He’ll take care of the horizontal.
I’m praying you continue to move toward healing. God Bless! And please know that there are others out there who care.
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Read on -
Paul
Thanks for the update. It makes a lot of sense, and I like the door "thoughts". Will keep praying, for you and for the family.
Best wishes,
Daniel
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Permalink Reply by Stevo on -
"Forcing God's hand" - I'm hoping you learned that it doesn't work. Testing God, while a serious sin in and of itself, is nothing more than treating God like a talisman. It means that you are attempting to control Him, force Him to act, and that doesn't work too well.
So confession is your first step - perhaps shedding light on this sin will choke the life out of it. There are many things that thrive in secrecy. This was the basis of my original challenges to you - the sin was and is your real problem. It always is. You never truly believed that God wasn't real, you just didn't want to confess. That seems so human and anyone can do it and it will bring relief to the confessor.
What separates the believer from the non-believer in this case? Where is that supposed power of God to free you? Why do you have to confess and go through all that work to free yourself from sin? I don't know, but there is a lot of truth in Paul's statement "crucify the flesh" - it implies work and pain to suppress and destroy your own sin nature. It implies that the new you who is born of the Spirit will only be able to start his fledgling life if you put down and crucify your fleshly desires. That's something you do.
So I've never believed that this was or is about proving God's existence.
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Permalink Reply by Lorraine Doswell on -
Paul,
One thing that concerns me....I sincerely hope that is not my Tanglewood you holding up in your profile pic, it looks remarkably like it : )
Seriously, great to hear from you..... 'What happens when my testimony is the factor that decides whether someone walks through the door or not. Would people believe you?' Hey I believe you, and there will be rejoicing in heaven if only one person walks through that door as a result of your future testimony.
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Permalink Reply by Gavin Ball on -
hi paul,
thanks for this post, very real and honest. i cant say that i really have a great deal of answers
for you but i would say keep searching and asking questions of God and others.
i really commend you for confessing and trying to deal with the issues in your life.
i would also say that in many ways im a lot like you. i think a lot, i question things and get v frustrated by things. i also believe that God is big enough to cope with our doubts, anger, frustration and sin. one thing some one arguing the opposite side with them, i actually found that v helpful.
sorry if that was trite or felt contrived just trying to do the best i can.
Gav.
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Permalink Reply by Teresa Kathryn, T Ballard on -
i agree by the way who is Pete Townsend?
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Read on
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Who? :-D
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Permalink Reply by Teresa Kathryn, T Ballard on
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well you know, people forget. i gues i got fooled agian
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