Theology in worship songs: Needed or not?

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Permalink Reply by Justin Kirkendall on November 17, 2008 at 4:30am

hmmm..... i think that they need to have a point.

I love how your questions used theology like 52 times in 5 sentences- haha i'm just messing with you....

:)

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Permalink Reply by Dan Camp on November 18, 2008 at 11:05pm

OK...at the risk of sounding rude (and that is not my intent at all...but voice inflection doesn't type well)...why are we even having this discussion? If it doesn't match with what I see in the Word, It'll not be sung from the front of my church...not in the least because (as I understand Theology) I, as a leader, will be held responsible by God Almighty if I lead people astray. "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck." Mark 9:42 (NIV)

That being said, there's a difference between bad theology and genuine differences of opinion on specific points of doctrine. I may choose to not sing some songs, based on the lyrics, but recognize that they are not "bad theology" per se, but rather say things that I'm not confident of from my understanding of the Word.

And, for my $.02 worth, there are a few hymns that I have lyrical issues with, so it isn't all just contemporary worship music...

Sorry if this sounds harsh...I'm kinda partial to the whole "Rightly dividing the Word of truth..." thing in my words, my deeds, AND my songs.

Blessings--Dan

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Permalink Reply by Phil Holburt on November 23, 2008 at 10:56pm

Totally agree with you Dan.
Whilst our songs & hymns used for worship meetings needn't necessarily be a treatise in doctrine/theology they do need to be soundly grounded in the Word. At the very least they need to be in harmony with the Bible.

We could go on about it in depth, but for me, if the song /hymn isn't in line with the Word then I'm not going to use it.

God Bless

Phil H.

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Permalink Reply by Ryan Foglesong on November 24, 2008 at 12:40am

Hey Dan! I completely agree with you! The fact is that this is a huge debate in a movement in the Church right now. I wish that this discussion wouldn't need to be brought up, but I threw it out there just to see what everyone thought. Some think that because we can't define 'truth' in the post-modern culture, there shouldn't need to be theology in the modern worship song, as long as the music 'serves' the individual to feel 'spiritual.' 'Unifying' the church becomes more important than outlining distinct 'statements of faith' based on doctrinal convictions.

I don't think you're being harsh because theology is extremely important in our worship for it informs the mind thus unifying the body and allowing us to worship deeper with the biblical nuances and doctrinal understanding outlined in a song.

Just throwing this question out there as well: Is a good worship song one that a Mormon, a Catholic, and a Protestant can sing truthfully? Or are there certain doctrines that should be included in a body of a worship song (or set sometimes) that would give it, for lack of a better word, 'denominational' distinction?

Ryan

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Permalink Reply by Phil Holburt on November 24, 2008 at 10:30pm

Yikes! there's a thorny question if ever there was one :

"Is a good worship song one that a Mormon, a Catholic, and a Protestant can sing truthfully? "

Take me out and stone me if I'm being judgemental BUT I don't think you could link the Mormon church and the catholic/protestant traditions together. Call me crazy if you like and I'm sure not wanting to offend people just to cause hurt but I honestly don't see the mormon church as Christian.
Sorry to those of you out there who may find that hard to read but I can't get beyond that.

God Bless
Phil H.

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Permalink Reply by Ryan Foglesong on November 25, 2008 at 2:15am

Hey Phil,

There are certain worship songs that are very popular in the mainstream Christian church that are also sung at Mormon youth services. I wonder why that is?

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Permalink Reply by Phil Holburt on November 25, 2008 at 11:37pm

Hi Ryan,

The truth is the truth, regardless of who sings it. If an atheist sings a song of praise to God, I suppose it would only be invalid for him as he wouldn't believe what he/she was singing.
That wouldn't negate the truth of the statements within the song for a second.

So I'm not surprised that some worship songs find there way into use in Mormon churches , it's just I can't see how Mormons are Christian when the version of their Bible and beliefs are radically different from mainstream Christianity . That's all I was trying to say really.

I guess I'm not very good at explaining myself on these issues without sounding like I'm judgemental.
Nothing would please me more if there was a revival within the Mormon church and they embraced mainstream Christian belief instead of that which they are taught. If the use of Christian worship songs is a catalyst in that process then so much the better.

God Bless
Phil

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Permalink Reply by Ryan Foglesong on November 26, 2008 at 7:07am

Hey Phil,

I'm in agreement with what you are saying. Regardless of who sings it, the words are still true. What I meant by them singing it 'truthfully,' was to say that there was no distinguishing doctrinal conviction in the song that would disagree with 'their' theology. Thus they could sing it with full conviction. Many worship songs today do not include vital 'distinguishing' doctrinal truths in them. (I don't mean like pre- vs. post-millenialism...) But obviously truth is truth despite the person who says it.

All Mormons consider themselves Christians, thus there should, in my opinion, be distinguishing lyrics that describe the doctrines that found our statements of faith in a mainstream Protestant sense. In the case of distinguishing doctrines apart from Mormonism, these would be lyrics that convey 'mono-theism,' 'Christ as God,' 'Sola Scriptura,' and other doctrines that disagree with Mormon theology.

Again, even though you and I both see Mormonism as a completely different religion, polytheistic, work-based sect of Christianity, they consider themselves Christian. So what will we choose to sing to distinguish, and teach theology through song to our own congregation? That's the question that churches need to ask of their worship leaders.

Thanks man, I do think we're on the same page!
Ryan

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Permalink Reply by Phil Holburt on November 27, 2008 at 11:23pm

no worries mate

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Permalink Reply by Dave Eden on December 3, 2008 at 3:38am

We need to remember that Mormons are a group that has broken off from Christianity. Therefore, they do sing many of the same songs we do. But songs like Holy, Holy, Holy they can't sing because it talks about the trinity. Plus, Mormons have been trying to convince us that they are just another Christian denomination. The truth is that they are not. So they are using some of the popular Christian songs as long as it doesn't go against what they teach.

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Permalink Reply by Patrick Craig on November 28, 2008 at 6:14pm

Ryan,
You bring up some interesting points. The people who think that truth can't be defined in a post modern culture obviously don't know Jesus. He is the truth - the absolute truth and correct information about Jesus is the only hope for a broken and corrupted mankind. So everytime we gather together we need to give people Jesus, in our songs, in our preaching, in our fellowship - since He is truth. The unbelievers may not get saved, but at least they will be able to make an informed decision about their eternity.

Also, right on Phil!!!! Mormonism is a false religion based on a book full of myths about an imaginary migration of the lost tribes of Israel to America - unprovable and opposed to the Gospel that Paul preached. It also teaches that man can become God. Catholicism has added a works based requirement (mass, indulgences, confession) to the simple gospel which denies the once-for-all atoning death of Jesus Christ as the only basis for your entrance into heaven, Paul called this works-based religion anethema. A believer who has been born again cannot share a song with those in darkness. Thus the presentation of the truth in our songs becomes all the more important.

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Permalink Reply by David Goodwin on December 4, 2008 at 12:12am

Amen to that Dan...this is all about rightly dividing the Word of truth in all aspects of our lives. Bless you guys, David

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