Theology in worship songs: Needed or not?

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Permalink Reply by Dale on November 16, 2008 at 12:32am

You might be saying "theology" when a better term would be "doctrine". Theology is the study of God and His relation to the world. Doctrine is that which is taught.

So I say sound doctrine is essential in a worship song. It wouldn't bring the Lord any glory (and it would be destructive and a lie) if the lyrics were saying the Bible is just another book, Jesus wasn't divine, there is no forgiveness, etc.

One thing to avoid in our concern about doctrine, is each song doesn't need to be an entire Sunday school lesson.

Hope that helps a bit.

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Permalink Reply by Ryan Foglesong on November 16, 2008 at 12:48am

Thanks Dale,
I didn't want to be specific with particular doctrines of the church, which is why I used the umbrella term of 'theology.' You're right that theology is the study of God, and that 'certain' doctrines can be expressed in worship songs!

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Permalink Reply by Dale on November 16, 2008 at 1:06am

So your original question was more relating to doctrine about which there is disagreement? Maybe I should write a worship song about speaking in tongues, or premillennialism vs. postmillennialism! Talk about a Sunday school lesson!

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Permalink Reply by Ryan Foglesong on November 16, 2008 at 5:49am

Hahaha, well I guess not as academic as pre vs. post. But how about the doctrines of 'limited or unlimited atonement,' 'assurance of salvation,' 'sola christo,' or how God has moved throughout history. Can worship songs communicate theological positions like many old hymns do, or is it sufficient to have praise songs that express how 'I feel about God.' I would love to hear a pre vs. postmillennialist or a calvinist vs. arminian song, hahaha

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Permalink Reply by Diana on November 16, 2008 at 3:12pm

when I write a worship song or even an inspirational song to be sung by a soloist, I have to ask myself if its scripturally accurate...that doesn't mean I have to quote a specific verse, but it needs to be demonstrated by a scriptural principle. and the other issue I try to include is, Is this true for all times and for all believers? There are quite a few current songs that seem to primarily address American culture and I find some of them frustrating because they are not applicable to other believers in other parts of the world. Scriptural principles are truly universal....we can address current culture, especially the lies it conveys and show the Biblical truth and hope..that is universal because every culture expresses "sin" in some way. I have known people that feel its only a valid song if it quotes scripture directly in the King James version... some of the most fun we have as songwriters is conveying a scriptural truth in a new way......

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Permalink Reply by Patrick Craig on November 28, 2008 at 5:49pm

My experience as a songwriter/worship leader has shown me that there are two kinds of music in a church service. The Word of God set to music, and songs that use words and thoughts that flow from the mind, heart, and experiences of a non-canonical writer. While the latter kinds of songs can point people to Jesus (what I call the pointing anointing), they are not the Word of God. What we know about the Word is that it is "quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Heb. 4:12..

In other words it has life (zao - God's life) and power (energes) and works in the hearer with an active life principle that changes and transforms them. No song that I write (or any other songwriter for that matter) has the same kind of power that is found in the living Word. So If I bring a chorus most of the time I want it to be straight from the Word. ("Create in Me a Clean Heart" for example.) I have written some choruses from the Word, but I don't consider them my songs, since I am just putting them to another melody. As far as teaching Doctrine, the best teachers simply present the Word and don't try to force it into a convoluted thesis. After all, it's the Holy Spirit's job to teach us everything we need to know about Jesus, and I believe He does that by revelation in a worship service as we present the Word to the congregation.

As far as telling God how we feel about Him, I think that's one of the big problems with songs in the church today. ME ME ME, I, I, I. Who cares! It's all so centered in self. The biggest section in my collection of choruses is the "I" section. (I think, I feel, I want, I love, blah blah blah). I find it very sad. What happened to the You songs? (You are mighty, powerful, wonderful, exalted, holy, awesome......)

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Permalink Reply by Lorne Speck on November 28, 2008 at 7:11pm

Amen & Amen brother.
Some of the 'feelings' songs/choruses are good to sing but yeah, where is Faithful One, At the Cross, etc.
Songs, music, and any other form of worship should exalt God which in turn draws us closer to God which in turn highlights our sinful life which in turn leads us to confession and repentance which in turn allows God to work even more thru us to bless others. It is NOT about me. Period.

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Permalink Reply by Tim Harmer on December 8, 2008 at 9:31am

I hear what you say Patrick, however don't forget that the Psalms were writen by a man..... David.....

We may concider that they are the words of God and they are, but I don''t think that David's ability to hear and write God's words as being any different from Yours or Mine or anybody elses...

I think too often we forget that the Bible is the MAN written Holy Spirit inspired word of God....

Just because David wrote it down does not make it anymore important than what you may write.. I think that you are quite capable of writing the Holy Spirit inspired words from God too...

Tottally agree with the me me me thing though,, although there is pleanty of that I Psalms too... woe was me...... I see plenty in Davids writing....

Blessing From Aus.... :(

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Permalink Reply by Carri on January 9, 2010 at 10:03am

Tim, you said "Just because David wrote it down does not make it anymore important than what you may write.. I think that you are quite capable of writing the Holy Spirit inspired words from God too..."

I'm sorry brother, but I must say that NO, our words are not the same as the words David or the other writers of scripture wrote down. That would make our words inspired and infallible. The transmission of Holy scripture was a very special divine move of God on the writers. What we are seeing today in current worship songs is just the opposite. Very fleshly inspired not God inspired.

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Permalink Reply by Mark J Rieger on January 10, 2010 at 3:26pm

Let me add a second AMEN! A few years ago I chanced upon public radio and the topic being discussed was hymns v.s. contemporary music - which do you prefer? For 40 minutes I listened to callers calling in and giving their opinions. Because it was a pre-recorded broadcast I could not call in. In those 40 minutes with some 20+ callers nobody - NOT A SINGLE PERSON - ever said, "Well, I believe that what God desires is....,""I believe that what ministers to the hear of God is....." Every single person talked about what they liked, what they felt, what they, preferred, what they thought, etc. etc. etc. How did we ever get to this point where even the one and only thing that is truly and uniquely His has become about our preferences?

Can we not conceive that if we offer up something that truly is acceptible to the one who sits on the throne, the one surround by a rainbow of emerald, in the midst of the living creatures, the lampstands before him the son of man at his right hand..... That it just might not be all that comfortable for us?

A few months ago the Lord spoke to me about declaration. If there is no declaration in our worship, then exactly what are we singing about? How can we begin to comprehend the love of God for us, if we have never encountered Him high and lifted up with His train filling the temple? Our worship must regularyly declare His worth, His greatness, His power and more. We need to regularly come before both the throne and the cross or we quickly lose focus and then the "me" songs are easy to run to.

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Permalink Reply by Carri on January 10, 2010 at 11:11pm

Amen brother Mark! I agree. And that doesn't mean all our songs have to be hymns. There are some modern Contemporary songs that have the rich doctrinal content of a hymn but are very modern. Then there are modern day hymns like "In Christ Alone and How deep the Father's love". These songs are like scripture and minister to us as well as honor and reverence God.

A great point to think about Mark, when you basically said our worship is not about us and our musical preference but what brings God pleasure, honor and glory! Because we are giving our worship to Him, it should be to His liking not ours.
We are living in very spiritually sad times. We have forgotten what true worship is today.

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Permalink Reply by Mark J Rieger on April 22, 2010 at 1:37am

Carri, Here's a story I first heard at the International Worship Institute. When fishing any good fisherman knows to put the bait in his mouth before putting it in the water right? Why not? How can we tell if it is palatable if we don't try it first?

Because it's not for us, it's designed to catch fish. And if we want to attrack something valuable - the fish - then we need to offer up something that while replusive to us - is attractive that that thing that we are trying to attract which has great value to us.

So if we are going to attract the pressence of God then we will have to offer up something that's attractive to him, not necessarily to us.

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