openness to new people

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Permalink Reply by bet nich on July 4, 2009 at 9:34pm

Some details, please - like

How long have you been at your church?
How did you get there?
How are you involved? (praise team member, leader, singer or instrumentalist, or sitting in the congregation)

Is the way the worship is now in agreement with the philosophy and theology of the leadership in the church? Sometimes the Pastor or Minister is not that open to new things or change; sometimes they are the ones trying to change the culture of a church. And sometimes there's one faction in the church pitted against another, which can quickly escalate into a 'worship war'.

If you are frustrated with the direction or lack of it in the Worship ministry, first, look in the mirror. Sad to say, our relationships with others are often the cause of friction and dissatisfaction. It's way too easy to get emotionally over-invested; oftentimes I have been guilty of acting like it's my group, instead of the Lord's. Then pray; ask yourself (and God) - how am I contributing to this problem? What can I do to make this situation better? Sometimes the best thing is to step back and let God do it.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I speak from painful experience...

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Permalink Reply by H on July 5, 2009 at 3:29pm

No not blunt at all very helpful I had never throught of a number of the points you mentioned such as

The way the worship could be in agreement with the philosophy and theology of the leadership in the church?

That this could be driven by the Pastor or Minister is not that open to new things or change;

That sometimes there's one faction in the church pitted against another, which can quickly escalate into a 'worship war'.

In answer to your questions:
How long have you been at your church? over 4 years
How did you get there? Left another to attendnad fiund support at adiffcult time from them
How are you involved? Praise team member, -singer

I also have taken time out to see and chcek if its me ( mirror suggestion)

Thanks

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Permalink Reply by Rick Cogbill on July 4, 2009 at 9:39pm

Without knowing more of your situation, I'd say that what you do in this situation depends on which side you're looking at it from. The rigidness you refer too might be their way of dealing with past problems of lack of direction, etc. Maybe they had bad experiences and had to lay down some ground rules.

Or maybe they're stuck in their ways. If you're new to this group, then I think you'd be doing them a favor by taking the time to get to know them, perhaps one on one, and finding out why things are like they are.

If you've been there forever and you think it's time to move on, please do so with grace and love. :)

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Permalink Reply by H on July 5, 2009 at 3:31pm

Again its helpful to get feedback I'm taking break right now whilst I seek direction

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Permalink Reply by Wayne Pau on July 5, 2009 at 9:02pm

I don't know how it is in the UK, but here in North America, some churches have created this idea that "church" is a country club, vs. a group of people saved by grace. We create rules and an atmosphere were our idea of evangelism is convincing people how great our "country club" is and why they should join. The idea that if we can get people to somehow come through the doors on Sunday morning, they'll look around and realized how great it is and jump through all the hoops we have for church membership. We spent lots of resources trying to put on the best 'show' every Sunday and build the nicest looking buildings, and have the most entertaining programs with the hope that we'll attract more and more people.

In some other cases, whenever someone suggests changing anything, we reject it and respond that's how we've always done things and if they don't like it, they can go to another church. Church membership class is more about stories about why the church split from another church than explaining the doctrines and foundations of faith.

Unfortunately, the church does not have a monopoly on 'good' people. Going to church doesn't automatically make you a better person. We are no better than those around us, just simply 'saved by grace'. At a conference I was attending this weekend, the speaker gave an analogy that we are more like 'tour-guides' vs. 'sales people'. We aren't here to get people to buy into our lifestyle, rather we are here to help each other through love on a journey in faith.

I've definitely been convicted that this is something that has to change. Just reflecting at my own church, how almost all the people on a Sunday morning are more mature Christians with very few non-believers. Where is the true growth? (I'm not counting Christians moving from one church to another as true growth.) Are we willing to risk ourselves and risk our church and hand it over to God, and see what He wants for it.

Hopefully I'm on the right track, and somewhat addressing your question. How we are dealing with this locally at our church is that we are challenging the leadership of the church to ask themselves if the rules and traditions are really 'of God' or rather of 'of man'. What we are hoping to happen is that people will be inspired and our church can go through some true revival, to have a passion for evangelism and also a burden to love God's people, all of God's people.

This of course is easier said than done. Some practical steps the leadership has done is:

- Invite speakers who can talk about living truly God-center lives. How to step out of our comfort zone for God's sake.
- Slowly try to integrate change (like creative arts, like drama teams) on special occasions, with the hope they special events become more main steam over time
- Rebuild our worship ministry to be more focused on getting people inspired every Sunday to meet with God.
- Work on evangelism and community need-based opportunities to allow individuals to enact out their faith/love
- Once a month have hand-selected personal testimonies that will hopefully inspire others
- Re-invent our prayer ministry to focus weekly on praying for our family and friends to come to God


Change is often slow and sometimes painful. However a roaring fire starts off as the smallest spark. I have personally found that direct confrontations, no matter how convicted you are usually not very effective. What I have found less abrasive is to try to inspire others to an alternative, and then showing them what can happen if we are willing to change. You can start small. Is there some way you can be a positive example of change for your church?

This last year, I've returned to the worship ministry (after some time off) to lead a worship team after being convicted by a friend of mine to try to encourage more 'inspired' worship. It hasn't always been the easiest, but we're seeing change, glimpses here and there. =) Change is often slow, and hard to see at first. Yet every journey begins with a single step.

I hope that helps.

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Permalink Reply by Jo Carr on July 6, 2009 at 7:46pm

Wow brother, that is SO on the mark in the Churches I have attended and then LEFT in the past 9 years. It breaks my heart for GOD's HEART, because WE KNOW from the WORD... we are CALLED to be the Bride of Christ, the people are to be JESUS with "skin on" to the rest of the world.
Will Jesus want to Marry the "CHURCH" as it is presently, when He returns?
Thanks for what you shared!

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Permalink Reply by Mark J Rieger on July 6, 2009 at 12:27am

Pray! Then fast and pray some more. There are all kinds of different spirits in churches, some being very rigid because that's what they believe the proper style of worship to be and others because the enemy is resisting and using unwitting people to force the worship to stay in a box. It's hard to know from your words what kind of spirit you are dealing with but the other replies have some really good advice.

When I have been in this type of situation I have found, a gentle spirit, a kind heart, and a genuine brokeness on the part of the worship leader, will cause a subtle shift in the worship that doesn't openly violate any of the rules, but those who are willing will sense the change. It's the difference between worship and music. Worship is always worship but music is not always worship or anything else. It is dependent upon the heart of the worshipper.

There are times when I've had to back way off the heavy spirit led stuff and just gently lead. People immediatly came up to inquire about the "change" in worship and commented that it felt like a river of cool water. Paul told us to not allow our deeper understanding or the "faith to eat meat" offend one younger in the Lord.

Unfortunately there are also times when the Lord has removed me from a place because of an unwillingness in the church to move. This is the most difficult of all situations, and in my experience it never happens quickly (taking months or even a few years) but afterwards you will know that it was the hand of the Lord. Never seek this out. There is something to learn in each situation and the Lord will use the current circumstances to work in you something that he wants in or work out of you something that he wants out.

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Permalink Reply by bet nich on July 6, 2009 at 1:36am

"When I have been in this type of situation I have found a gentle spirit, a kind heart, and a genuine brokenness on the part of the worship leader will cause a subtle shift in the worship that doesn't openly violate any of the rules, but those who are willing will sense the change."

Good advice, Mark...

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Permalink Reply by Joshua Ratnapuram on July 7, 2009 at 8:35am

Hi, I am joshua, i am witnessing a similiar problems in the chruch where the church seniors they just judge by their own rules , they dont allow anyone to bring changes in the church nor increase the choir as its just not helping to boost the church morally .Its was shock to know that I once confessed to our pastor that i once had smoked with my friends an i wan ask forgivenss but he just spread this news to everyone saying that i got bad habits an don make him stand in choir, I just wan know whats meaning of repentance , If i accepted my mistake am i laible for punishmnet if i wan to change myself an be loyal to my father, an as my father said judge not others do my pastor did the right

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Permalink Reply by Rick Cogbill on July 7, 2009 at 2:23pm

Sorry to hear about the harsh response of your pastor and church, Joshua. I don't know the cultural issues around smoking where you live, but sometimes the church tends to be much less forgiving that our Lord is. Try to remember that the church is made up of people, and people can make mistakes.

Don't be bitter, but instead use the experience to remind yourself not to be too harsh on someone else who makes a mistake. After all, you know how it feels!

I hope you can find a place to serve the Lord in worship.

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