Music during prayer

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Justin Kirkendall on January 22, 2009 at 3:13pm

I agree. Sometimes, when people are be prayed for- you don't necessarily want everybody in the church to be listening and hearing what is being said at the front of the church- music seems to help keep people focused on what they need to be focused on during those times: Jesus.

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Permalink Reply by Justin Kirkendall on January 22, 2009 at 3:11pm

During prayer meetings and normal services, I normally play and sing.
At our church, I think it has just become custom and habit.

One of the big things I don't like is when people come to prayer meeting or to pray and end up worshipping the whole time- which as a worship leader, I'm glad they did. As a leader, not so much- i would rather pray and seek God's face- then to get "lost in worship" that they didn't pray for their needs/needs of others- yet if worshipping helps you get your mind together- forget about your day- and helps you to focus and be able to pray and seek God's face- I'm happy to be of assistance. So it's a back and forth with me.

We almost always use music at the end of the service during altar/invitation ministry time- I don't feel that I use in a manipulatory manner- I just think that it helps drive home the point of the sermon.
If the music is too loud- it becomes a distraction- that's no good
If I'm singing the wrong songs for the occasion- If I'm singing Happy Day -by tim hughes during a prayer meeting- that's no good.
If i'm off key or messing around on my keyboard (which almost never happens- haha- no really) it's no good.

The point is valid about emotional manipulation- that could very well be the case; but in my dealings with people (and knowing myself)- they are going to do what they want to do when they want to do it how they want to do it; regardless of what song is being played.

I would rather play and sing myself then to have a CD going or a playlist running- because there is always that one song that comes in with blazing guitars and drums that "accidentally" got in the playlist during the best part of the prayer meeting- or the sound tech turns up the volume because the music got quiet- EEK! it's easier to control myself then it is to control a playlist/CD.

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Permalink Reply by Junjie on July 23, 2009 at 3:42pm

My pastor recently asked me to consider recording a CD of music to play during soaking times and when there's ministry going on. That's an interesting challenge, to come up with something that would work in many situations and not get in the way. Still thinking about it... :)

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Permalink Reply by Anthony on January 22, 2009 at 3:25pm

If the prayers are prewritten and handed down you can create a musical setting and chant the prayer. Provided the arrangement is apropos (not too ornate) it will serve to bind the music and prayer together in the mind of the listener, making it memorable and effective. It helps if the reader has a good voice, but it isn't necessary. If it is a simple enough arrangement even someone who is mostly tone-deaf can intone it enough.

There are a near infinite variety of traditional prayers (old hymns were indistinct from prayers) if you know the right place to look. I will offer a few examples, and suggest that authentic prayer is within and not external (as we learn from the parable of the Publican and Pharisee) and a thing of the heart, for as David says 'a broken and contrite heart you will not despise) (ps. 51) thus whether the prayer's audible words are spontaneous or written (for those of us not talented at poetry pre-written prayers are a great boon) the real prayer is within. No Christian would argue that the Lord's Prayer is somehow inauthentic; but that it is the state in which it is prayed and the intent which determines whether it is prayed rightly. This applies then, to not only the Lord's Prayer but to any prayer.

'O Heavenly King' - Orthodox prayer to the Holy Spirit

"O Heavenly King, O Comforter, the Spirit of Truth; who art in all places and fillest all things, treasury of good things and giver of life, come abide in us and cleanse us from every stain and save our souls, O gracious Lord."

http://music.russianorthodox-stl.org/music/pentecostarion/pentecost...

That's 'tone 6' (there are 8 tones in the Orthodox tradition, which represent different common musical settings in different traditions.) The key is that the tones are common, and when one has sung enough chant they become natural. Thus at some point the congregation becomes able to follow along because the know the tone, even if they are not familiar with the actual written music.

Note that the translation is slightly different in that arrangement (the original is Greek) but that is fine, words like 'O' can be added or omitted, and expressions of the ever-presence of the Spirit vary. The key with that is that within the congregation the same words are always used.

Such a prayer disables our tendency towards emotionalism, and perhaps if we can quiet ourselves we can detect the more subtle things that God is telling us, and set aside the turbulence of our heart and the ferocity of our ego. Lord have mercy on us.

Take note that the beauty of the setting is important. It is secondary to the words, but it is no easy task making beautiful things. Thus practicing and repeating the same prayer is baptized; it no longer is used as an incantation as the pagans would do but is practiced to refine the discipline of the singers and to teach the listeners to pray more effectively with words handed down to us from the ages. The psalms, as we are all aware, are of great effect as well and are scattered through all Orthodox services. I believe the Roman Catholics do this as well, but I am not as familiar with their Offices as I am with Orthodox services.

May he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks be gracious unto us.

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Permalink Reply by Anthony on January 22, 2009 at 3:38pm

Also, I think I didn't mention this, but it is a capella. Sometimes the Greeks will use an organ as backup, but I disfavor it personally. Most choir singers can do a capella but don't realise it. Everyone else will follow along if they are musically inclined.

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Permalink Reply by Scott McCullor on January 22, 2009 at 5:31pm

Written and recited prayers are something foreign to me. Of course, I've heard the Lord's Prayer often and recited along with others, but have always believed and been taught that it was a model for prayer and the types of things we should pray about rather than a prayer in itself other than when Jesus was praying it.

I believe prayer should be a discussion, albeit one where we often say more than we hear. In that light, I'm not likely to recite a poem to my wife to tell her how I feel about the special dinner she prepared, nor would I do so to the Lord.

I don't mean to discount it, just that I don't really get it.

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Permalink Reply by Anthony on January 22, 2009 at 6:28pm

Yet all the things we express - how we learn to express - is by repeating expressions that came before us. We will often not know how to express something until we hear someone else express it.

Prayer is actually a form of communion, the words simply being the most outward portion of the whole. In the story I mentioned (the Publican and the Pharisee) you can see that the words they employ reflect the condition of their hearts, whether pride of repentance or whatever else. But the highest form of prayer is complete silence since there are no words which can contain God or circumscribe his love for his creation.

Thus our attitude, I think, is more of one that the words are to teach us how to pray in our heart, and what things we should always remember.

Then again, we also pray for the dead, and ask for the glorified ones to pray for us. The written prayer, like a written song, bears the focus on one's self, to own the words.

But please do not take me as an authority. I feel like Uzzah, here, touching on these things. They are much better taught through experience than through words. And I would be a poor example.

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Permalink Reply by Scott McCullor on January 22, 2009 at 5:41pm

I think another aspect that should be addressed is our societal aversion to silence. There's a reason that iPods and cell phone video and home entertainment and music in the upscale outdoor malls have taken off. We are so accustomed to being stimulated that we have a hard time with dead air.

One of the things I have discussed with our leader (who does a great job, btw) is that we don't have to have a continuous segue between every song. Sometimes it's good to let a song finish, especially a quiet, contemplative one, and just be silent for a minute. Allow people to worship privately and listen in case God is telling them something. Maybe he's afraid someone will jump up and prophesy or pray in tounges and we need to pre-empt that. (Although we're not a very traditional Baptist congregation, there would probably be some there who would flip out.) Maybe he thinks people will start yacking or get bored or feel awkward. It just feels like a show/performance thing to me even though I know it's not his intent.

"Be still and......" is still valid. It hasn't been replaced by "bring it down 9dB and....". Yes there is a place for "down 9dB" but sometimes - often - coporate silence is a great thing.

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Permalink Reply by Anthony on January 22, 2009 at 6:20pm

A few things I have noticed:

1. In a capella services, volume is not an issue (though of course this relies partly on traditional temple designs which allow for reasonable accoustics) probably because being produced by the human instrument, the conditions produced are distinctly manageable for humans.

2. No matter how loud we worship, it is certain that the ten thousands of angels around the throne are drowning us out. Loud and highly rhythmic music for me tends to evoke a lot of imaginative creativity, which interferes with focusing on repentance and the words of the Gospel.

There is an amusing story, about an abbot who was visiting a monastery. After the prayers, he was talking to another monk, who asked him what he thought of the services there. He said, "Oh, it is fine, but the singing is terrible." The other monk was confused, having been in the service, where they had an excellent chanter. "What do you mean, terrible, father?" He replied, "Yes, it was so emotional. I couldn't concentrate at all."

The second odd part is that there is almost always music in the Orthodox service. Most everything is intoned, so when we pray a litany (literally, 'list') the 'Lord have mercies' and 'amens' are sung. Many prayers are sung, troparia (themes), kontakia (longer hymns) and Gospel and Epistle readings are chanted or sung.

So there is kind of a paradox at work. Perhaps the a capella nature makes it possible to have continuous music. Of course, there's also the fact that most services are done by ancient pattern and thus systematized, making possible the interplay between reader/chanter (the worship leader) bishop(s), priest(s), deacon(s), choir and congregation. This at times, especially during liturgy (the sunday service) creates an atmosphere of musical stillness; like motion and movement at once.

But then, we often botch things up. But we aspire for divine beauty.

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Permalink Reply by Ana Sanchez on January 22, 2009 at 6:01pm

Music is a very powerful tool, let's not forget how David played music and played well for King Saul and the tormenting spirit would leave him........ but it's all a personal preference.. At church this past Sunday we had congregational fasting and prayer and it was all good but it got even better once the Pastor's wife started playing on the keyboard very softly the melody to several worship songs..... little by little everyone got involved in singing "softly" and worshipping. The music was not needed because the presence of God was already there but it sure was awesome once the music started the way the people were worshipping and adoring and humming to the melody of the songs.....

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Permalink Reply by Daryll on January 22, 2009 at 10:08pm

I don't know what the big deal is. I listen to music in EVERYTHING I do!
I am at my computer about 8 hours a day with Contemporary Christian Music playing, I watch movies that have background music, all the programs on TV have background music, I drive my car with music playing, I workout physically with music playing. I walk or jog with an MP3 player in my ears.
I do not find any music distracting from what I am doing.
How can music bother anyone? When I am at the outreach I fingerpick chords on my unplugged acoustic guitar while I pray.
My pastor sits at the keyboard while praying and if he doesn't, he has the piano player chord softly in the background.
Music is the best setting for everything we do. It is better than listening to someone wheeze or cough, babies fussing, or people blowing noses.
I mentioned in a different thread that while I am praising or listening to praise music I find it VERY difficult to sin.
As per your last sentence - I disagree with you and suggest what is beneficial for you is to listen to the prayer and enjoy where the music takes you!
In His service
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Permalink Reply by Scott McCullor on January 22, 2009 at 10:39pm

Bro, you really seem to be providing a case study for my overstimulation argument. I dare you to go 3 days with no music.

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