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feminizing church

I lead worship in a military town. Obviously we have some manly men in our church. I really would like to do a few songs but simply can't because of their feminization. Like for instance:

Beautiful One-can you see a man calling Jesus beautiful
At the foot of the Cross-Kathryn Scott-"Trade these ashes in for beauty
And wear forgiveness like a crown
Coming to kiss the feet of mercy"
Hungry-"Jesus your all this heart is living for"


I think you get the point. What do you guys think?

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Permalink Reply by Aaron Amico on October 30, 2010 at 6:25pm
its not about proving people wrong, its actually knowing what Gods word says.

as david says in the psalm 119:11, "I have hidden YOUR Word in my heart that I might not sin against YOU."

so its not about who is right and who is wrong, its just about knowing your bible.
Permalink Reply by Bosque on October 30, 2010 at 6:52pm
The New Testament emphasis and focus is not on the external word as much as it is in the word of Christ stamped and written on our hearts! To put it on the external opens the door to legalism and idolatry not grace!
Permalink Reply by Aaron Amico on October 30, 2010 at 7:25pm
the point is, study your bible. know Gods word. let His Spirit guide you.....by using your heart as well as His word.

and if you dont know the bible, how are you supposed to know what you believe? its simple logic.

you can never read Gods word all you want, and youll be ignorant. thats up to you.
Permalink Reply by Stevo on October 31, 2010 at 3:40am
How can you get the word stamped on your heart without the word that is written? The word written is just words, but when you read it and understand it (not everyone will agree), it is on your heart. But it doesn't stay there in our fallen state - we have to keep laying it in over and over.
Permalink Reply by Bosque on October 31, 2010 at 3:53am
I was thinking of Hebrews 8:

10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest."

This seems to refer to knowing the Lord intimately which is the gift of the Holy Spirit instead of having knowledge about the Lord. And having the spirit of the law which is grace instead of having the objective letter of the law which can lead to legalism not grace.
Permalink Reply by Stevo on October 31, 2010 at 5:05am
Yes, intimate knowledge. That day indeed is coming, but hasn't come yet. We are on the way, but the fact is, they all do not intimately know God yet. Most of Israel is dead to the Lord right now.

I'm not sure you can make the point you're trying to make by appealing to this passage. Appealing to God's Word as a final authority on an issue is exactly what Jesus did day in and day out. It's not legalism. There's much more in there than a list of do's and don'ts. Hammering people on dos and don'ts is legalism, appealing to God's word in a discussion is just acting like our Lord and master.
Permalink Reply by Bosque on October 31, 2010 at 5:26am
Excuse me, you're saying the New Covenant hasn't come yet? What are you living under the Old?
Permalink Reply by Stevo on October 31, 2010 at 11:47am
I'm saying the words of Hebrews that you reference aren't completely fulfilled. Israel currently sits with a very small number of converted believers. Yet, He says - "they will ALL know me (intimately)".
Permalink Reply by Bosque on October 31, 2010 at 3:15pm
The Israel of God is constituted of everyone who believes both Jew and Gentile.

The ALL you refer to is also referred to in Acts " 'In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people."

The beauty of the New Covenant is that Jew and Gentile form one new man in Christ and are partakers in the promises which God gave Israel that are fulfilled in Christ.
Permalink Reply by Stevo on October 31, 2010 at 5:39pm
I think your in a Reformed state of mind and I'm in a Dispensational frame. For me, if Israel is mentioned specifically, I think He means to single out Israel. Gentiles are still called Gentiles although we are grafted in. We're not Israel - that's NOT the point of all being one in Christ.

But even if you take it that way - not ALL know God intimately yet, especially not Jewish people. So that can't be completely fulfilled today.

And to be sure, it's NOT about being a believer. When it says "they will all know me", it doesn't mean "they will all be believers". It means (in the Greek) they will all have intimate knowledge. "Know God deeply" says the neighbor - the believing neighbor who is exhorting his believing neighbor, encouraging him to get deeper with God. This won't have to happen in that time because all will know Him intimately.

Are you saying it's no longer appropriate to say "get deeper with God?" If you feel that passage has been fulfilled, that is the logical conclusion. If you've ever said it, then you are contradicting yourself.

Wait, how did we get here?
Permalink Reply by Bosque on October 31, 2010 at 9:13pm
You're right about the Reformed / Dispensational perspective. I kind a figured that as well!

I think being One in Christ is precisely about a new identity beyond Israel and Gentile, its about identification with Christ, the second man who gives the hope of eternal life to all who believe regardless of their previous status before God.

"14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility." Eph 2

6This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus." Eph 3

"26You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Gal 3

There is no Israel/Gentile distinction or classes in Christ but just one new entity which is called by many names in the NT, ie. people of God, household of faith, church, kingdom, the circumcision Phil 3:3, Abraham's seed, new creation, even Israel of God, Gal 6.
Permalink Reply by Stevo on October 31, 2010 at 11:25pm
Yea, there is no Scythian or slave and so on. But when He mentions Israel, I believe all through prophecy, He means Israel. If you treat it otherwise, it get's kind of messed up as you take everything to it's point.

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