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feminizing church
I lead worship in a military town. Obviously we have some manly men in our church. I really would like to do a few songs but simply can't because of their feminization. Like for instance:
Beautiful One-can you see a man calling Jesus beautiful
At the foot of the Cross-Kathryn Scott-"Trade these ashes in for beauty
And wear forgiveness like a crown
Coming to kiss the feet of mercy"
Hungry-"Jesus your all this heart is living for"
I think you get the point. What do you guys think?
Beautiful One-can you see a man calling Jesus beautiful
At the foot of the Cross-Kathryn Scott-"Trade these ashes in for beauty
And wear forgiveness like a crown
Coming to kiss the feet of mercy"
Hungry-"Jesus your all this heart is living for"
I think you get the point. What do you guys think?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Stevo on -
Bosque - I'm moving backward here to go back to your original point - Jesus appealed to scripture constantly to correct and exhort people. The New Testament emphasis IS on the written word, but it goes even deeper and focuses on being righteous in heart as well as outward behavior. That's the difference.
I'm not sure I see the idolatry part either...Jesus said, "have you not read?" Yes, some will focus on what it says and make that their only hobby without ever reaching out and knowing it's author, but we're not talking about that here.
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Permalink Reply by Bosque on -
Understanding the difference between the exterior focus of the Old covenant and the internal reality of the new is critical for appreciating who and what Jesus accomplished.
"we're not talking about that here" .Conversations are two ways, you do not dictate the other persons contribution!
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Permalink Reply by Aaron Amico on -
i have no idea why you keep bringing up "the new covenant" as if having that means we dont rely on scripture. if what your saying is true, then we dont need the new testament. so if you think we dont need the new testament.....why was it written? it was given Divinely......so why did God decide to have it written?
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Permalink Reply by Aaron Amico on
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no offense, but most of your contributions to conversations get way off point and you start talking about completely different subjects, and pretending they relate to what is currently being discussed.
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Permalink Reply by Stevo on
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Bosque, the thing with Catholic theology is this - you have to remember that it's a completely different approach. Their appeal to authority is multi-faceted while the protestant one is singular. The Word isn't their only authority - they appeal to apostolic succession and rulings from the chair and other kinds of church tradition. It's the fundamental difference between catholic theology and protestant theology - the source of authority.
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Permalink Reply by Greg Moore on -
Lorraine - very well spoken. To use the free will God gave us and (having, hopefully, a renewed mind) to allow ourselves to be taught by the Holy Spirit! Yes -- this is so utterly important!
By example: I doubt there is anyone on this site who thinks black slavery should be restored, or that one race may be inferior to the other. Yet a "theology" was devised that not just allowed, but promoted it, and to this day we have to deal with bigots who promote it. It goes like this: 1. Noah gets way drunk. 2. Ham (father of Canaan) comes and sees his dad naked, but Shem & Japheth, being smarter or wiser, go in backwards. God pronounces a curse on Ham - "the lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers." 3. Ham's children bear the names of 3 African regions and Canaan (where Israel is today). 4. Fast forward to New Testament: "Slaves, serve your masters." Aaron, you'd readily agree that this violent ripping of word-out-of-context results in ignorance and wrongdoing -- yet for centuries really smart people believed this -- including a number in a church I attended in the 70's.
It seems to us that a child could see other possibilities: 1) Canaanites did not live in Africa. 2) The prophecy could have applied solely to Ham and his son Canaan, the wording does not say or imply 'forever.' 3) All of this generational stuff is dissolved now -- true sons and daughters of Abraham are defined in the New Testament by faith, not by race or heritage. But those who want to believe something that gives them gain will find a way, unless they listen to the Holy Spirit speaking otherwise.
According to Paul, women are supposed to stay quiet in church and wear hats. Today, we brush that off as "custom" -- or do we? How does that Scripture jive with "...neither male nor female in Christ" (also Paul writing)? God indeed gave us a mind that is capable of something called discernment, and a spiritual ear to listen to the Holy Spirit. If not, we would go mad trying to reconcile all Scripture. Most folks, not wishing to go mad, settle on on or another concept to deal with one or another situation in life.
Perhaps this comment may seem a bit cynical about our motives. But part of wisdom is discernment -- being willing to check further than what seems palatable at the moment.
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Permalink Reply by Aaron Amico on
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totally agree, and i actually already said that.
if we dont have Gods word to back us up it should be known that it is opinion.
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Permalink Reply by Lee Christopher Reddyhoff on -
I think you make a really good point here. On one level it is true that we can worship Christ and use the lover, and beauty type words. But they do give us a problem when we want to reach out to men in the community. I would suggest being careful to use the songs that speak more of Gods majesty and kingship. I know men in my own community for whom the language of the church in many ways is a real barrier to a proper conversation. If we are to reach out and change the world we need to understand how to communicate with it.
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Permalink Reply by Greg Moore on
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In general, I'd say for both men and women, using language that means something brings vitality to Christian society (there's an example: I could have just said "say what you mean!" and skipped the Latin). In recent years, there have been many attempts to de-program us from "Christianese" -- Bibles in clear modern language, sermons that "say it like it is".
When I was a new "convert", I went to Campus Life meetings, where we went through "discipleship", which included writing our own "testimony" - the story of how we came to trust in Jesus to give us eternal life -- in less than three minutes. I mean they timed it with a watch. This may seem confining to some (I barely slinked in under the five-minute mark), but one ought to be able to express onesself about the most important matter in one's life in a way that others can understand. No one will listen (and few will trust) a person who talks in circles and uses mystifying words carelessly.
"Salvation" "Saved (what's the difference between 'was saved' and 'am saved'?)" "Justified (how is justified different than self-justification?)" "Blessed" "Rejoicing (how come we never say we are having 'fun'?)" "Hallelujah" "Clean/Unclean" "Cleansing Blood" "Heart" "Eternal Life" "Law" "Love"
Some of these are obviously Christian "shop terms", using a short word or phrase to describe a set of Biblical concepts. Others are common terms that are used in a different way in Scripture than in the world at large (Paul frequently redefined words that had been abused by society, such as "Law", and gave them the meaning they should have). We would do well to know what our neighbor thinks "love" is, and endeavour to show him what love actually is.
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Permalink Reply by David Maynard on -
To compare worship with attraction is silly.. Yes a man can call Jesus beautiful. The characterization of a person as “beautiful”, whether on an individual basis or by community consensus, is often based on some combination of Inner Beauty, which includes psychological factors such as personality, intelligence, grace,
politeness, charisma, integrity, congruence and elegance, and Outer Beauty, (i.e. physical attractiveness) which includes physical factors, such as health, youthfulness, facial symmetry, averageness, and complexion.
This song is thus based on Inner Beauty and in the case of Christ eternal beauty, as well are many Psalm. If a man likes a car he may say may that's beautiful. He doesn't mean he wants a date with it. I sing this song in my worship service and I am a 3rd degree black belt.
How beautiful on the mountains
are the feet of those who bring good news,
who proclaim peace,
who bring good tidings,
who proclaim salvation,
who say to Zion,
"Your God reigns!"
To compare worship with attraction is silly.
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Permalink Reply by Bosque on
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Why did you have to say "Black Belt?" Now no one is going to disagree with you!
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Permalink Reply by Aaron Amico on
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im a 9th degree polka dot belt
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