feminizing church

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jamie Soen Leonhard on March 17, 2009 at 10:08pm

I just recently had this discussion with a friend, another worship leader, and we came to these conclusions.

First, there are a lot of girly songs. No one is forcing you to sing them.

Second, you live in a day and age where there are thosands of songs to choose from.

Third, I applaud your sensitivity to your home culture/atmosphere. We need more men and women like you.

Finally, follow your calling (leading worship) and listen to the Holy Spirit, and use your wisdom re: your culture and situation, and enjoy worshipping the King.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Todd Vaters on March 18, 2009 at 7:19pm

Do you really think God sees them as "girly"? One of my concerns about this discussion is that it seems to have more of a modern cultural view than a scriptural view at times. I think we must be careful not to judge another person's worship. The woman who annointed Jesus and washed her tears with his feet was a slobbering mess... and Jesus loved it! Jesus praised her and condemend those who judged her. I don't mind what side anyone takes here but I think terms like "Jesus is my boyfriend" and "girly" are meant as put downs to that flavor of worship. If I'm wrong, my bad.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jamie Soen Leonhard on April 9, 2009 at 7:52am

I think one of the problems with modern culture is that we've done a few things...let me elaborate.

1. Love is a feeling...and so we've made love a feeling in our worship songs, rather than committment, sacrifice, a choice.
Those men whom our friend is discussing, these men that sacrifice for love of country, know what love is when they give up EVERYTHING in order to serve in the military. They are away from friends, family and loved ones, and do it because they want to. They shouldn't be forced to sing about "love is a feeling" songs to God.

2. We've equalized the genders too much, and we've not embraced our God given differences.

3.But don't get me wrong, we've defined manhood as devoid of emotion and grief and sadness, thus robbing a man of expressing emotion. In ancient times, men wept. Jesus wept when Lazauras died. We see grief and emotion shown by men in the scriptures again and again.

However, your example of worship was accomplished by a woman....I think there are feminine expressions of worship...and those should be treastured. There are also masculine versions of worship, and both should be celebrated if that makes any sense.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Blue on April 9, 2009 at 5:43pm

I don't believe women should be relegated to the "I love You, Lord" songs and men should be relegated to the powerful praise songs. I'm sure for men in the military, etc. "dying to self" is a more difficult thing than for most of the rest of us, but if Jesus is Lord of all, he is Lord of US as well. We are commanded to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth; not "within the guidelines of our social-psychological expectations".

~M

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kevin Riner on March 17, 2009 at 10:15pm

One thing I love about this website. There's alot of encouragement and great discussion!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Blue on March 18, 2009 at 4:23pm

I think this is a good point, but as Christians, we need to remember that there are many facets to God, and that all the books of the Bible are there for a reason (yes, even Numbers and Lamentations, lol!). God shows us many pictures of Himself, particularly in the Old Testament, as a Father, a warrior and yes, even a lover. Song of Songs is part of the Bible, too, and without the WHOLE picture; if we pick and choose what sides of God we want to see, we are intentionally robbing ourselves of the full experience of God.

I'm not saying let's do nothing but "Love songs" all the time; that would have the same negative affect as never doing them at all. Instead; we should all strive to be aware of the entire being of God, and enjoy all His many facets, even the ones we're "not so comfortable with".

~M

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kevin Riner on March 19, 2009 at 12:24am

Thank you Dominique, and welcome to the website. I think you gave me a great idea with our writer's circle. On writing more material about spiritual battles and victories and stuff like that.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Shaun Walker on March 19, 2009 at 1:13am

This is a great discussion. I am currently writing a book that touches on this subject, so it has been great to see so many different views expressed.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kevin LeVrier on April 9, 2009 at 4:03pm

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the biblical region. We are looking at this as "westerners". Eastern culture, the one Jesus grew up in, did and still do see this totally different then we do. Men hold hands with other men as they walk down the street because they are friends, nothing more, and have love for one another. The women do the same.

I think sadly, in America, our men are so insecure of themselves that they (we) have a hard time being intimate with other men, even with JESUS. With the homosexual movement being what it is, our men cannot see past any physical relationship to move into a spiritual one. Jesus is desperate for some one-on-one time with each of us!

Lord, take the blinders and possible reproach away and let both our men and women see a PURE intimate relationship with YOU as a must have. Let the men be eager as John was to lay our head on your breast. That is the best place to be to hear your heartbeat. Please take us back once more to a place where we can be alone with You and simply love You. AMEN

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Lee Gunter on April 10, 2009 at 6:45am

Did I miss this whole discussion? Is it over for all practical purposes? I hope not.

If you can't see Jesus as the beautiful one, you're missing something. But I guess you said you can, right? Next step - as a worship leader, you need to lead these men into worship, just as a military leader would lead men into battle.

Imagine this: a military leader who leads his men over and over, taking the same ground over and over again - never moving forward, never daring to move on to the next hill, the next battle, the next conquest, the next victory.

Be sensitive. Be wise. Be led by the Spirit. But do not be afraid, and do not be timid. Teach these men of war to be lovers of God. Look at the Psalms. that big sissy King David wrote most of them. In fact, there's an idea - find a "love song for God" that comes fromone of David's psalms. Intro it by talking about Davif a little - the warrior and psalmist.

And as for Mars Hill, Mark Driscoll and the feminization of the church... have you listened to his sermons? He is NOT talking about falling love with God and thinking Jesus is beautiful as being feminine. I was going to next say "This is what he IS talking about" but I'd do a really bad job. Download (fully legal, btw) the sermon and listen. He's pretty awesome.

Meanwhile, heres a thought or two -
"Rise Up, O Men of God"
"Strong Tower" (Kutless)
"A Mighty Fortress"
"Rock of Ages" hymn by Toplady & modern song by Rita Baloche
"Meet with Me" - Lamont Hiebert of Ten Shekel Shirt

Last but not least - don't be afraid to be meek. some will mock, but the real men who are confident in both thier manhood and their love for Christ will recognize it for what it is. Be strong enough to stand in front of a bunch of grunting and spitting military men and say Jesus is beautiful to you. Tell them Jesus has won your heart. Don't back down about it an inch.

That's my take, and it comes from a place of being broken many times. Unfortunately, being a servant is not very cool...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Michael Blue on April 10, 2009 at 4:56pm

Game, set, match. Lee Gunter. :)

~M

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gary Eaker on August 5, 2010 at 11:52pm

Well said -- except you guys have some really wierd stereotypes about military men. What makes you think we are grunting and spitting? You watch too many movies. LOL

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 3
• 4
• 5
• 6
• 7
• …
• 23
• Next ›
• Page