Worship Leaders Network | Worship Leader Forum | Worship Leader Resources & Jobs
Discipline
About 2 months ago I was asked to take the choir at our church. I love it, and it was given to me as a result of lack of leadership, and they needed someone that has had experience. I have over 25 years of experience in the music ministry although choir is not one of my strong suits, I serve because there is a need and because I love people, and my goal and vision is to see them flourish and grow.
Since I have come in I ran head on in to a discipline situation, and at the Worship Pastors request along with a couple of other leadership, I was asked to have a member of the Choir step down indefinitely. The whole entire situation was handled with grace and integrity, I have been doing this for a very long time and this is not the first time I had to remove someone from a team as a disciplinary action.
This person has continued to tell people that they were removed from the choir by asking for prayer then continuing to discuss the situation, it is spreading like wild fire within the team. Most of the team never asked as to why this person was removed only because they have seen first hand the issues that are associated with their removal, but I am continuing to have a lot of resistance either because they do not agree or because I will not give a reason because of confidentiality and only sharing that with a few leadership.
This person was constantly complaining about something, and just an ungratefulness and resistant to change, and being a constant interruption during rehearsals.
Please pray for me and my team. I have over 50 people in our main choir and it is growing, and I know that the enemy would to destroy the new work that God is doing here.
Is there anything that you would suggest, we have given hope based on change, and we will continue to work with them with love and grace.
Since I have come in I ran head on in to a discipline situation, and at the Worship Pastors request along with a couple of other leadership, I was asked to have a member of the Choir step down indefinitely. The whole entire situation was handled with grace and integrity, I have been doing this for a very long time and this is not the first time I had to remove someone from a team as a disciplinary action.
This person has continued to tell people that they were removed from the choir by asking for prayer then continuing to discuss the situation, it is spreading like wild fire within the team. Most of the team never asked as to why this person was removed only because they have seen first hand the issues that are associated with their removal, but I am continuing to have a lot of resistance either because they do not agree or because I will not give a reason because of confidentiality and only sharing that with a few leadership.
This person was constantly complaining about something, and just an ungratefulness and resistant to change, and being a constant interruption during rehearsals.
Please pray for me and my team. I have over 50 people in our main choir and it is growing, and I know that the enemy would to destroy the new work that God is doing here.
Is there anything that you would suggest, we have given hope based on change, and we will continue to work with them with love and grace.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Ariel Salazar on -
I have found that sometimes you have to address the issue, without giving the details. We all know that change does have its price, and I have found that when you are raising a new standard, it forces people to make a decision. That has always been my experience.
When we raise the standard, individuals must count the cost of what is now being expected and determine whether they are willing to pay that price. If people trust your leadership, there should not be that big of a fall out.
I would definitely address the situation rather than letting it fester below the surface. I would also explain that my door is always open should anyone need to talk further.
-
Permalink Reply by Brenda Hannah on -
Thank Ariel, that has been done and will continue to be done by the worship pastor. Yes, change and elevation comes at a price.
Always when someone is not present there are always questions as to their whereabouts, and only two people out of 50 resisted or questioned the decision that was made, and only resisted because of lack of knowledge and once they realize that the decision did not come down from me a lone, they will find out that it was based on a much larger scale.
People can either choose to become better or become bitter, and in times of elevation there is always sacrifice involved.
I have made my door completely open to anyone that wants to ask direct questions, and I am very thankful for an awesome leadership team that saw this a long time ago, an unfortunately the situation became worse just as I was coming in as the director right in the middle of a huge conference, and I was the one that had to address the situation, and this person did not accept my decision because they said that I did know them well enough to make that decision, that just shows lack of respect for one that is put in authority over you, and them knowing full well that this was not my decision alone and came from the top.
Unfortunately change is a problem for this person, and disrespect to leadership and ungratefulness to the people that surround them in friendship and love. This person all around is loving and kind, but the attitude of the heart is not right.
-
Permalink Reply by Nicki Black on -
It's a sensitive situation, indeed. I might suggest that you make a corporate announcement to your choir to stop this festering ember, stating what you shared here, in that although you cannot give specific reasons due to confidentiality, the issue was dealt with in love and integrity. If you think it warrants a further aside, perhaps you could also lovingly, yet firmly, let them know that further discussion about this issue is gossip, and those participating will also be asked to step down. The latter might be too harsh, as I don't know how rampant the rumors have become.
I will be praying.
Blessings,
Nicki
-
Permalink Reply by Brenda Hannah on
-
Thank you for your suggestions, it helps sometimes to hear from other worship pastors, just so you can hear other vocabulary to use that might be more helpful getting the point across. We have already begun the process of directing the choir as a whole, and your suggestions are great. It is not to rampant but it does require more attention, and we will address at our next meeting.
-
Permalink Reply by bet nich on -
Yes, there is a fine line between giving info and gossip...and people will talk...
-
Permalink Reply by Brenda Hannah on
-
Yes, there is. And I appreciate that everyone has come directly to me if they have any questions at all. Yes, it is only a natural part of life that people want to communicate their own opinions, but we have to all hold ourselves to a higher level.
-
Permalink Reply by Lorraine Doswell on -
For what it is worth I think you are dealing with the situation with a totally right approach and wonderful sensitivity, also, you have been given some great advice by Ariel and Nicki.........when you are dealing with a large number of people it goes with the territory that things like this will crop up now and again - different personalities, resistance to change etc. I have no experience in dealing with lots of people - I so admire you for your committment in taking this on........ be assured I will pray for you and your situation. Like Ariel says, please feel free to share anytime, I may not be great on advice, but my ears are not too bad for listening. Praying for you and your team. Lorraine
-
Permalink Reply by Brenda Hannah on
-
Lorraine,
I have so much great leadership that surrounds me, that I have been mostly at peace with the situation. The fist couple of days though I really was frustrated because I knew that the decision was final for the time being, and because I knew that I was going to meet some resistance. Yes, I do have a lot of experience working with large groups of people, and sometimes I think that in these situations it is almost worse when it is with a small group of people, because most of the time the people in smaller groups have more personal relationships with the ones on the team and it can destroy a worship team in one second flat, and with larger teams they are not in and out of peoples lives on a personal basis as much, I mean they are, and they do have groups of people that are close to on another, but for the most part they are not. Because we are a team that really holds gossip or frustration at a minimum, when things like this happen people really respect the leadership because we do not do this often and when it happens people are very supportive to the leaders because they know that it would have never happened unless there was a very good reason, so for the most part people are very supportive.
-
Permalink Reply by David Harrell on -
We had to remove someone from our praise team about 6 months ago and encountered many of the same things including facebook requests for prayer, etc. The only thing I ever shared with our praise team was that she would no longer be singing with us.
It is difficult as a leader to take the high road in maintaining confidentiality when the other party is talking and giving their spin on things to anyone who will listen. Keep the faith. Brenda...I think you are dealing with this situation with wisdom and grace.
-
Permalink Reply by Brenda Hannah on
-
You are exactly right! This is exactly what is happening, the person is continuing to trying to talk to anyone who is willing to listen. The great part of it is that everyone redirecting them to speak to me directly and holding themselves to a higher standard and not getting sucked in. I think that everyone is realizing that this is exactly why we can not continue to have this person on the team.
Thank you,
Brenda:)
-
Permalink Reply by Dave Hartwell on -
Sounds like there are a few things that have to happen here.
You might consider publicly and formally addressing the team next time you are all together.
1. Address the sin of rumors.
- Explain the Biblical expectation / process for handling issues
- Explain the Biblical expectation / process for handling communication of issues
- Explain the problem around rumors
2. Explain to the entire team that person ("Bob") is not with the Chior
- Get it out in the open so it's not a rumor
- Explain that this had become a rumor issue, that otherwise you would not bring it up.
. (keep this brief; don't go into details, just state the minimum, and say it with all respect and love)
3. Explain what you expect in the way of behavior of team members.
I had a problem a few months back when some members got together for dinner (which is good) and discussed what they like and don't like about worship (also good). What went wrong is that party B took party A's comments and discussed that with party C.
By the time I heard about it, it was being suggested that party A were totally miffed and ready to leave the church. I pulled everyone involved together, everything came out, and party A said that it was nothing of the sort. I then explained (A) it's good that we are at a point where we trust each other enough to take off the "everythings great" Christian masks; this is part of the trust that is important in a team and between friends, but (B) discussing what one person says with another, unrelated person is inappropriate. Finally, (C) that I expect the team to follow Biblical principles, that if you have an issue with your brother, you take it straight to him, and if he hears you, you have won your brother over. Etc.
A really good treatise on the subject is found at http://bible.org/article/church-discipline
By the way - how you handle this is a measure of how the team will look to you as a leader. It's key that you take this opportunity to show strong leadership in this with high integrity. It sounds like that's what your doing, and it's important that you continue to do so. When this is what you do, this is what they will expect, and what they will emulate. Leadership is not related to popularity or friendship. They are unrelated.
And oh, boy, that's a sermon all to it's own. I'll save that for next Sunday. (Sorry for being so long-winded...)
-
Permalink Reply by Dave Hartwell on
-
Sorry, I can't resist one more thing.
When you took over the leadership, there are some phases that you should expect:
. - Forming (everyone is nice to you, everything is great, all smiles)
. - Storming (enough trust is built up that stuff comes out, not always how you might wish)
. - Norming (you and the team learn to work together; adjustments are made to your / their style)
. - Performing (ahhhhhh)
Knowing this, welcoming it when it comes, and showing leadership as you drive through this is the sign of a true leader.
Grace, Mercy, and Peace to you,
-- Dave.
Providing worship leaders with a worship leader social networking community of worship pastors, worship leaders and team members. Worship leader resources on WTR include worship set lists, worship leader forum, worship groups, worship leader jobs, popular worship songs, worship blogs from worship pastors, worship events, festivals and conference listings, a place to chat about all things worship related, videos and photos. WTR aims to resource worship leaders in the best possible way - by providing free worship leader tips and training resources.
© 2010 Created by Phil Williams.
