Different tastes

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Stevo on January 29, 2012 at 8:06pm

Is it about controlling what is sung, or is it about having favorite songs that one wants to hear? I don't get requests for song types that "we don't do", but I do get requests for songs that don't lend themselves well to congregational singing. I just tell people that I've not forgotten their requests and that we will evaluate every song and that our evaluation criteria are somewhat complex. In other words, I welcome the input, but be aware that it could be that we won't pick your song for our lineup.

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Permalink Reply by David Loeffler on January 30, 2012 at 12:05am

Its mostly control spirit, They left and are the biggest tithers in a very small church. God will supply all our needs so please pray for others to do their part, I can not bow down to mans money, I hate to loose anyone but following God is more important. I love the people but hate the control spirit and can not allow it in the church, just pray no one else follows or is persuaded by this. I've talked and done all the things you mentioned, so its up to God now.

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Permalink Reply by Stevo on January 30, 2012 at 3:18am

Yea, but how bad is it? Are they insisting on ungodly music? Is it music with bad theology? Is it "only hymns" they want(ed)? Is it worth letting a church body wither and die over?

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Permalink Reply by David Loeffler on January 30, 2012 at 5:42am

nothing is worth letting a body die over. it's just that the majority of those here want the newer worship and hymns once in a while so I include a hymn at least once or twice a month, problem is they are not regular enough to be here when we do hymns and are always late, usually come in at the last song and the hymns come in at one of the first two to flow properly. When I had the discusion whith them and told them this it didn't seem to matter and other excuses came up, so very hard to read the real reason, they have never been on time but say others want the hymns also but when I survey the congregation I don't get that responce, so I'm thinking it's just them. But again I don't want toloose anyone but can't please everyone and if they aren't here for worship how do they know what is played, they have little contact with anyone else besides me. He was an Elder last year and never mentioned these things??????

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Permalink Reply by David Loeffler on January 30, 2012 at 5:56am

one thing I for got to add is that they were not part of the congregation that voted us in , they had left when the last pastor got here and we called them and got them to come back and they have been back or 3 1/2 years.

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Permalink Reply by Toni on January 30, 2012 at 12:11pm

It is very hard to be in leadership somewhere, step down and then return. Not saying it's impossible, but it is very difficult and places a strain on both the ex-leader and those around him. However in this situation it sounds like they are not acting as part of your church, so much as a person on the fringe and wanting to stay that way unless they get some influence. Calling them and asking them to return has already probably given them some expectations, even if that was never mentioned. This could go a couple of ways, especially if they start trying to have an influence on others, making them dissatisfied.

I would say that you've already explained that you do include hymns, but they aren't sufficiently part of the church to have been there for them. When/if they show signs of commitment to the life of the church and are serving the body then you should start allowing them to be influential. Give their opinions the same weight you would anyone else's - take it to Jesus and see what He says.

A quick side note. I grew up singing hymns and truly disliking all but the few with any kind of anointing. However having moved to a church recently that sung a majority of 'ME' songs (at least for the first couple of years) after a while I was desperate for something with some meat, that talked about God and His glory instead of Jesus is my boyfriend type content. I actually missed some of the hymns, and it changed my heart for them.

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Permalink Reply by Stevo on January 30, 2012 at 1:19pm

Personally, I can't imagine doing that few of hymns. We do about 50% modern and 50% hymns. While it may seem like you're being controlled, keep in mind that you're not being asked to do anything morally wrong. It's a good thing to sing hymns. 

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Permalink Reply by David Loeffler on January 30, 2012 at 5:57pm

I understand its not wrong to do hymns, it's just that I just started playing guitar 9 years ago and being a missionary Pastor I do everything in and around the church. My time is limited so my time to learn new songs whether they be hymns of not is very limited much less getting the rest of the teem to learn them. The area we are in is surrounded by Native Americans and we have been between here and one other place missionarries to the Native Americans for 10 years. Where we are now there are many youth and young adults that did not grow up in the hymn culture and we need to win them to the Lord also. we are also mixed with Hispanic and artists, so there is a wide range of people to reach. Like I said i would rather not loose anyone but if it meens not being able to reach a whole generation God sent us here for then I must brush the dust off my feet and let them go.

I'm not sure how this forum works with different religions and I understand many of the doctrins and am not putting anyone down here so don't get me wrong when I say this but we are the only Spirit filled church in the area and we move in the Spirit, not that you can't with hymns its just the way God uses us and for someone that has been Holy Spirit filled for 41 years to leave to go to a none Spirit filled church over something like hymns I feel is just wrong. I sat and talked with him twice for well over an hour each time and many excuses were givin and I calmly addresed them all and overcame them with changes that are being made, but nothing seems good enough.

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Permalink Reply by Greg Newhouse on January 30, 2012 at 7:56pm

 we are the only Spirit filled church in the area

 

Churches are like chocolates - you can't tell what they're filled with just by looking. This is one of those sensitive subjects here. You will find many traditions represented, and many people who've had their views broadened by the discussions, myself included. Don't take me wrong when I say that spirit-filled is far too often a code word for we like to rock out, wave our arms and move when we worship. Please be better than that.

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Permalink Reply by David Loeffler on January 30, 2012 at 11:13pm

I don't know what you mean by be better than that. I don't think you have an understanding of what I mean by Spirit filled, I'm not talking fakeness, we worship God in Spirit and truth, we operate in the gifts of the Spirit during worship, such as healing if I feel The Lord call for it or a prophetic word or song or prayer inbetween, we don't just get up and sing songs, we worship to God not feel good songs about God. Read your Word worship is to God not a bucnh of people waving hands and singing feel good songs. And we don't rock out, we play in the Spirit, I hate when people stereotype esspecialy other Christians and esspecially a Worship Leader.

I went through four years of Bible training and have been a senior Pastor for 10 years and and assitant for 10 years before that, I was just trying to get some feedback on a situation not people telling me to bow down to money instead of God, Maybe this is the wrong forum for me, I was hopeing for some more mature responces.

Permalink Reply by Stevo on January 31, 2012 at 12:11am

Now this is even more suspenseful than I imagined - good information, but not enough, so I'll ask a few more questions. Are you mainly filling your pews with Indians/Latins, or do you mostly have white bread Americans in your congregation? Absolutely go for the music that is most appropriate for the culture you're dealing with.  But also, a few hymns are good, everyone can benefit.

Do you really think of hymns as not Spirit filled? Or do they just not have a good vibe for you? Very few modern songs contain the mature and spiritually rich lyrics (mind you, not all are equal), so there are many many hymns that are very Spirit filled. I would rather say that hymns were not always written to appeal melodically and rhythmically to every culture. That's why some have been re-written with newer music. I would also love to re-word some of them a little bit to get rid of archaic terms. 

It looks to me like you're still treating this as an antagonistic thing. (I say this because you say "brush the dust off my feet" and "we are the only Spirit filled church in the area". ) Is this because you're being directly pressured with an "or else" kind of thing? I still think there's no need to make it this way.

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Permalink Reply by David Loeffler on January 31, 2012 at 1:33am

Yes it was an or else thing and they left, I would love to have them back but can not think of what else to say. We are pretty evn with the diversity of race.

And we do some of the hynms that have been redone to make them more modern yet keep the original meaning to them, like your Blood by Matt Redman and the Amazing Grace/ chains are gone, we also do At the cross, the original nothing but the blood with added verses, the original Amazing grace., and a few others. No I don't think hymns are not Spirit filled, I just find it hard to get a good mix that will please such a diversity of people in both race and age and most importantly a mix that will Honor God and not just man.

I have preached several times that we should all be able to worship to any style because the focus should be on God and not the music, and I live by that. I preach that so everyone will be tolerant of the different styles so that all can get a taste of what they like, the problem lies in the want for it to be mostly hynms which will keep the older ones but chase away the younger or the ones not raised on that type. So I try to mix it up as much as posible for the croud that is here, but like I said earlier alot of the times we do the hynms these particular people are not here or are late and miss the hynm.

Even though I speak calmly and with love it comes back with other issues that have been handled or are being worked on.

They did childrens church for years for ages 6-12, they droped it and my wife took it over because thereis no one else to do it at this time but it was spooken that we have nothing for children, which they abandened and my wife took over. they have a 3 year old granddoughter that they have custity of and my wife always takes her when they are here. So, you can see Im scratching my head  trying to figure this out. If anything things have constantly been changing for the better in every area they have a problem with yet I can not seem to please them.

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